That the woman is so named means that she had specific demand for Susanna

The brand new genealogists all contemplate it significant one to Nicholas’ spouse Clementia is actually provided right here as, not as much as normal products, she would not be mentioned. When Susanna from the some later on go out received out to yet another guardian, the latest partner of the protector was not stated.

This should mean that Queen John spent some time truth be told there and the possibility of an enthusiastic amorous liaison which have Clementia can be found

What follows we have found an idea advanced by the certain eminent genealogists, however it is fair to say that the brand new results is actually hotly contested!

This concept contributes to a delightful and curious ‘twist’ on story from Joanna, which could focus admirers of HBD!

On the surface, there is nothing to suggest any partnership between the hostage, Susanna from Wales and Clementia, partner from Nicholas de- Verdun. Yet not, the feel of some genealogists which have international hostages, including young ones, has been that they had been commonly placed having family, or no was basically available.

Bouncing forward to 1236, there is certainly an entry regarding Tewkesbury annals hence relates to Joanna’s mom since “King Clemencie!” They reads in part:

Now, we know that mother away from Joanna try named Clementia (Clemence?

In this situation the monk was plainly indulging inside medieval legalism. Prior to their death, Joanna had been legitimised because of the Pope. On such basis as you to definitely legitimisation, the new Tewksbury monk plainly got they abreast of themselves to elevate Joanna’s mommy for the updates off King, as if their own mommy is Queen John’s spouse! It is a fact but not, that Queen John and you will Clementia was never ever hitched. By speaing frankly about Joanna’s mommy once the “Queen” Clementia, the monk just who filed Joanna’s passing is appearing his extreme regard to possess Joanna, but not wanting to replace the correct points.

Are you aware that identity away from Clementia de- Verdun, Paget shows that she is the fresh child off Roger de- Dauntsey, regarding Wiltshire. One to genealogist takes into account it extreme you to Clementia acclaimed from Wiltshire while the he has noticed that King John got a strong accessory to help you one to state, it as being the household off his most trusted partners, new Longespee, ilies and you will Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists found the title ‘Clementia’ try most uncommon certainly one of English noblewomen of period. In one dining table away from women’s labels that has been obtained, there are just several incidents of your term brightwomen.net sivuston web-linkki “Clementia” regarding a maximum of 1407 women in the newest shot! The truth that someone titled Clementia will be of this Susanna is considered tall.

Therefore! The data is actually effective, although not definitive, you to definitely when you look at the 1228, Susanna, just like the a beneficial hostage, obtained out over the new care of their own maternal grandma, today wife out of Nicholas de Verdun!!

The fresh new Scottish genealogists of your own MacDuffs’ hold you to definitely Susanna ferch Llywelyn was born 1214 in Gwynnedd, Wales and died c. 1259 inside Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She partnered Malcolm MacDuff, Earl away from Fife during the 1230 and had a couple of pupils: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl regarding Fife, born 1245, died 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff created 1247.

Definitely, there are stop arguments to all the which conjecture! Queen John got many mistresses and perhaps as much as seven illegitimate pupils. The mother regarding Joanna would have been born circa 1172 and you will marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself came to be circa 1191 (fourteen yrs old at the time of her matrimony to help you Llywelyn). Rohese, the fresh new understood genuine daughter off Nicholas de Verdun with his wife Clementia was created circa 1210-1213. If the Clementia was mom of Joanna, she would come in their own later 30’s, early 40’s whenever having a baby in order to Rohese! Not impossible, specific say, but unlikely.